PTL Frequently Asked Questions
By Julien on Monday, May 9 2011, 14:12 - PTL - Permalink
A few runners have asked me detailed information about the PTL lately, probably because of the lack of insider information available in English. Therefore I have decided to gather a few questions and answers based on my participations in the PTL in 2009 (unsuccessful) and 2010.
Last update: 22/06/2011
General
Q. Why do runners drop out?
A. I stopped in 2009 because of a kidney pain, but I guess other runners would be more likely to stop due to tendinito-musculo-skeletal injuries. Time limits have also been shown to stop a few teams. Gastric problems, which are very frequent on the UTMB, are however less of an issue on the PTL due to the slower pace allowing better digestion.
Q. What would you change if you did it again?
A. Not too much on the logistics, really. Last year was pretty well managed I think. I would carry some water disinfection tablets and pack more varied food. And train more in the hills, obviously!
Q. Did you run or power walk it?
A. The PTL was a super-hike for us. We ran the first 8km to Les Houches, then some downhill sections on the first day... and that's it! Well, until Leo tried to leave me behind on a really fast (or so it seemed) finish line sprint.
Eating and drinking
Q. Was there any food/water available at the refuges? How much did they cost?
A. It was around 15 euros for the refuges as far as I remember. There was food and drink in refuges we went to, but I know some might stop serving food during the night.
Q. Did you carry all food for full event (other than bag drop food) or did you try purchase food as you passed through villages?
A. We probably had just enough food in total (including drop bags) for the full event. So we carried at most a third at a given time. But we purchased (a lot of) food on the way, from refuges, restaurants, cafes, bakeries, ... We also used some food available at some checkpoints (Petit Saint-Bernard, Morgex, Champex).
After two days, we started to get bored of our food, and it was also good to get a hot meal and sit down from time to time. It helps a lot, both physically and mentally. This was particularly true when facing bad weather in Grand Saint-Bernard, and even more with the unexpected (to us at least) refuge at Col de Balme. Without this one, we would have probably not finished on the same "day".
So I would definitely recommend to be opportunistic with food.
Q. What food did you carry?
A. We prepared a total of 18 mini-meals containing each: parmesan, saucisson, bread, nuts, snikers, chestnut spread, ie. real food. That is 3 meals per day per runner for 3 days. We also had various other bars around.
Q. Where and how often did you refill your bladder with water and what was your total water carrying capacity?
A. I had 3 liters: a 2L bladder and a 1L bottle. The bottle is useful to refill from small streams. Otherwise we would refill in refuges, restaurants, fountains, etc ... We also refilled once from an underground canalization manhole, which was slightly odd. I can't remember exactly how often we refilled, but I remember that the section down to Morgex was rather problematic, with nearly no water to be seen for hours, in the middle of a sunny day. In 2009, it was the way up after Morgex which was completely dry. So be prepared for this valley!
If I was to do it again, I would take disinfection tablets to deal with this situation, which would allow to drink from cow dung infested stagnant puddles (if there is any).
Q. What is the limit of in terms of water filthiness that would stop you from drinking it?
A. Well, it all depends how thirsty you are... You can end up pretty thirsty on the PTL, and we have drunk from relatively stagnant water and/or with potential cattle grazing around, which I would not do in normal conditions.
Q. Did you carry a stove and pot? Was it useful if you did, or if you didn't would you carry one next time?
A. We did not carry stove and pot, and I would not change that. It's too much weight for little gain, as you can get hot food from restaurants/refuges from time to time anyway.
Q. How many bag and/or food drops, and where?
A. In 2010 there were two drop bags: at Morgex and Bourg Saint-Pierre. That might change, though.
Sleeping
Q. Was it necessary to book the refuges in advance, or did you just turn up at the door and hope for the best? How did that work out for you?
A. For the first refuge (Deffeyes), we called a few hours ahead to book because we anticipated that most runners would try to reach it for their first night, would it be at 8pm or 3am. We assumed that for the next nights, runners would probably spread up. I am not sure it was entirely necessary. In 2009 we just turned up. I think the best solution is probably to call them when you know roughly when you are going to make it, ie. 6 hours beforehand.
I was dubious when I heard runners had booked a refuge for every night before leaving. You might know in which refuge you are going to sleep on the first night, but for the next 2 or 3 ones, it's going to be rather difficult to predict were (and in what state) you will end up at what time. Plus other factors, such as bad weather for example, might mean you'd prefer to have a nap earlier when rain's pouring outside, and then run by night when the sky clears up later... So you really have to be flexible with your schedule to maximise your chances to finish.
The dorms in Bourg Saint-Pierre could not be booked, but were free. Some people arrived after us and could not find a free bed. Rooms in the nearby hotel could be booked I think.
Q. Did you carry a full tent or just an 'emergency shelter'? If so, what make and model did you bring? Did you use it?
A. In 2009 we carried a LifeSystems Bothy 4-6 emergency shelter (we were three of us). We used it only once during training and hated it (there's cold condensation everywhere, and it's suffocating), so we did not use it during the PTL.
In 2010, we carried a Terra Nova Laser Photon tent (we were a team of two). It is very small for two, not amazingly comfortable, but manageable if you are very tired. Having a tent you know you can actually use adds a lot of flexibility: you can stop when you really need it (tiredness, weather, ...), not only when you happen to pass by a refuge/hotel.
Route and navigation
Q. Is the path exposed? Is it very different from the UTMB?
A. The path can be exposed at times, but that is not the case in general. In our case, the ridge at Pointe de Drône was rather hairy, especially with the wind and rain. It's a bit of scramble, but equipped with cables and chains. The ladders near Chéserys were a bit exposed too. I guess these are only a few short-ish sections that can be managed even if you don't like aerial paths too much.
Exposure aside, the underfoot conditions are different from the UTMB. There are easy paths, but there are also quite a few boulder field crossings, tortuous ridges, river in 2009, snow slope in 2010, etc...
Q. Were there snow patches to cross?
A. There was one major one last year indeed, going down from the Pas de Panaval. It was equipped with a fixed rope by the organiser, who was visibly a bit worried about us.
Q. Did you use a GPS?
A. Yes, this is fundamental if you don't know the route, even if you are a good navigator. By night and potentially bad weather, when you might be very tired and not fully with it, the last thing you want is to start meandering around and getting lost. Loading the track provided by the organisation and planning spare batteries is strongly advised.
Q. You say in your blog that at some stage you lost GPS coverage (and many others seem to have experienced the same). Did this happen more than once or was it just a particular area and if so where was that?
A. As far as I remember it was mostly in the Comba Bella. But generally, when you have steep slopes around and/or dense forests, the signal gets significantly degraded (even if your GPS receiver tells you the accuracy is good). You just have to deal with it. That said, the route is changing every year...
Q. What type of maps the organisers provided you with? Were they paper copies strip maps of the route and did they also provide a GPS download map of the route? To get a GPS map of the route would involve buying a section of France, all of Switzerland and all of Italy which would cost hundreds of pounds.
A. The organisers gave us a paper copy of the maps in a waterproof-ish folder. It was pretty much the same as the one provided online, at the exception of a few minor last minute changes. We had already printed them on tough paper beforehand anyway, so we left the ones they gave us in the drop bags.
They also provided a GPS track of the route and a set of major waypoints beforehand. Some guys from Garmin were on-site to help runners at the briefing. I have to say that it was a bit fiddly for us. Two versions of the track were available: low and high resolution. The low resolution seemed pointless, and the high one had too many points for our GPS device. So I had to write a script to segment the high resolution track into a dozen shorter tracks.
You don't need to buy the maps for the GPS. Following the track on the GPS and on the paper maps simultaneously is good enough. I think that's what most runners did.
Equipment and clothing
Q. Did you use poles?
A. Yes! I couldn't even think to do it without poles. They drive power out of your arms both up and down hill and relieve (a bit) your quads and knees. They also help a lot with balance (or the lack of it). Leo and I realised 10km before the finish line that we couldn't even walk properly without them, as we had relied so much on them for the past 200+ km. I used a pair of Leki Makalu Tour, which might be a bit on the heavy side, but have been proven robust enough to handle me.
Q. Did you use a very powerful head torch? Did you use a hand torch as spare?
A. No, I used a Petzl Myo XP, which is good enough if your sight is not too bad. More powerful ones use a lot more batteries I think.
I carried, but did not use a Petzl Tikka as spare, as opposed to a hand torch. A hand torch is supposed to give you a better depth perception since the light comes from an different angle than your line of sight, making more visible shadows. However, I never understood how it can be used in combination with poles.
Q. Did you wear your waterproof jacket over the bag?
A. No, this would be a bit difficult, since my waterproof jacket is relatively snug fit, and the bag was not that lean. However, we used ponchos as an extra layer of protection. It makes a difference if you're in the rain for a long time, and the bag can easily fit underneath.
I hope this is useful. If you have any more questions, feel free to post them hereafter as comments.
Ultra PTL feedback
Last update: 22/06/2011
General
Q. Why do runners drop out?
A. I stopped in 2009 because of a kidney pain, but I guess other runners would be more likely to stop due to tendinito-musculo-skeletal injuries. Time limits have also been shown to stop a few teams. Gastric problems, which are very frequent on the UTMB, are however less of an issue on the PTL due to the slower pace allowing better digestion.
Q. What would you change if you did it again?
A. Not too much on the logistics, really. Last year was pretty well managed I think. I would carry some water disinfection tablets and pack more varied food. And train more in the hills, obviously!
Q. Did you run or power walk it?
A. The PTL was a super-hike for us. We ran the first 8km to Les Houches, then some downhill sections on the first day... and that's it! Well, until Leo tried to leave me behind on a really fast (or so it seemed) finish line sprint.
Eating and drinking
Q. Was there any food/water available at the refuges? How much did they cost?
A. It was around 15 euros for the refuges as far as I remember. There was food and drink in refuges we went to, but I know some might stop serving food during the night.
Q. Did you carry all food for full event (other than bag drop food) or did you try purchase food as you passed through villages?
A. We probably had just enough food in total (including drop bags) for the full event. So we carried at most a third at a given time. But we purchased (a lot of) food on the way, from refuges, restaurants, cafes, bakeries, ... We also used some food available at some checkpoints (Petit Saint-Bernard, Morgex, Champex).
After two days, we started to get bored of our food, and it was also good to get a hot meal and sit down from time to time. It helps a lot, both physically and mentally. This was particularly true when facing bad weather in Grand Saint-Bernard, and even more with the unexpected (to us at least) refuge at Col de Balme. Without this one, we would have probably not finished on the same "day".
So I would definitely recommend to be opportunistic with food.
Q. What food did you carry?
A. We prepared a total of 18 mini-meals containing each: parmesan, saucisson, bread, nuts, snikers, chestnut spread, ie. real food. That is 3 meals per day per runner for 3 days. We also had various other bars around.
Q. Where and how often did you refill your bladder with water and what was your total water carrying capacity?
A. I had 3 liters: a 2L bladder and a 1L bottle. The bottle is useful to refill from small streams. Otherwise we would refill in refuges, restaurants, fountains, etc ... We also refilled once from an underground canalization manhole, which was slightly odd. I can't remember exactly how often we refilled, but I remember that the section down to Morgex was rather problematic, with nearly no water to be seen for hours, in the middle of a sunny day. In 2009, it was the way up after Morgex which was completely dry. So be prepared for this valley!
If I was to do it again, I would take disinfection tablets to deal with this situation, which would allow to drink from cow dung infested stagnant puddles (if there is any).
Q. What is the limit of in terms of water filthiness that would stop you from drinking it?
A. Well, it all depends how thirsty you are... You can end up pretty thirsty on the PTL, and we have drunk from relatively stagnant water and/or with potential cattle grazing around, which I would not do in normal conditions.
Q. Did you carry a stove and pot? Was it useful if you did, or if you didn't would you carry one next time?
A. We did not carry stove and pot, and I would not change that. It's too much weight for little gain, as you can get hot food from restaurants/refuges from time to time anyway.
Q. How many bag and/or food drops, and where?
A. In 2010 there were two drop bags: at Morgex and Bourg Saint-Pierre. That might change, though.
Sleeping
Q. Was it necessary to book the refuges in advance, or did you just turn up at the door and hope for the best? How did that work out for you?
A. For the first refuge (Deffeyes), we called a few hours ahead to book because we anticipated that most runners would try to reach it for their first night, would it be at 8pm or 3am. We assumed that for the next nights, runners would probably spread up. I am not sure it was entirely necessary. In 2009 we just turned up. I think the best solution is probably to call them when you know roughly when you are going to make it, ie. 6 hours beforehand.
I was dubious when I heard runners had booked a refuge for every night before leaving. You might know in which refuge you are going to sleep on the first night, but for the next 2 or 3 ones, it's going to be rather difficult to predict were (and in what state) you will end up at what time. Plus other factors, such as bad weather for example, might mean you'd prefer to have a nap earlier when rain's pouring outside, and then run by night when the sky clears up later... So you really have to be flexible with your schedule to maximise your chances to finish.
The dorms in Bourg Saint-Pierre could not be booked, but were free. Some people arrived after us and could not find a free bed. Rooms in the nearby hotel could be booked I think.
Q. Did you carry a full tent or just an 'emergency shelter'? If so, what make and model did you bring? Did you use it?
A. In 2009 we carried a LifeSystems Bothy 4-6 emergency shelter (we were three of us). We used it only once during training and hated it (there's cold condensation everywhere, and it's suffocating), so we did not use it during the PTL.
In 2010, we carried a Terra Nova Laser Photon tent (we were a team of two). It is very small for two, not amazingly comfortable, but manageable if you are very tired. Having a tent you know you can actually use adds a lot of flexibility: you can stop when you really need it (tiredness, weather, ...), not only when you happen to pass by a refuge/hotel.
Route and navigation
Q. Is the path exposed? Is it very different from the UTMB?
A. The path can be exposed at times, but that is not the case in general. In our case, the ridge at Pointe de Drône was rather hairy, especially with the wind and rain. It's a bit of scramble, but equipped with cables and chains. The ladders near Chéserys were a bit exposed too. I guess these are only a few short-ish sections that can be managed even if you don't like aerial paths too much.
Exposure aside, the underfoot conditions are different from the UTMB. There are easy paths, but there are also quite a few boulder field crossings, tortuous ridges, river in 2009, snow slope in 2010, etc...
Q. Were there snow patches to cross?
A. There was one major one last year indeed, going down from the Pas de Panaval. It was equipped with a fixed rope by the organiser, who was visibly a bit worried about us.
Q. Did you use a GPS?
A. Yes, this is fundamental if you don't know the route, even if you are a good navigator. By night and potentially bad weather, when you might be very tired and not fully with it, the last thing you want is to start meandering around and getting lost. Loading the track provided by the organisation and planning spare batteries is strongly advised.
Q. You say in your blog that at some stage you lost GPS coverage (and many others seem to have experienced the same). Did this happen more than once or was it just a particular area and if so where was that?
A. As far as I remember it was mostly in the Comba Bella. But generally, when you have steep slopes around and/or dense forests, the signal gets significantly degraded (even if your GPS receiver tells you the accuracy is good). You just have to deal with it. That said, the route is changing every year...
Q. What type of maps the organisers provided you with? Were they paper copies strip maps of the route and did they also provide a GPS download map of the route? To get a GPS map of the route would involve buying a section of France, all of Switzerland and all of Italy which would cost hundreds of pounds.
A. The organisers gave us a paper copy of the maps in a waterproof-ish folder. It was pretty much the same as the one provided online, at the exception of a few minor last minute changes. We had already printed them on tough paper beforehand anyway, so we left the ones they gave us in the drop bags.
They also provided a GPS track of the route and a set of major waypoints beforehand. Some guys from Garmin were on-site to help runners at the briefing. I have to say that it was a bit fiddly for us. Two versions of the track were available: low and high resolution. The low resolution seemed pointless, and the high one had too many points for our GPS device. So I had to write a script to segment the high resolution track into a dozen shorter tracks.
You don't need to buy the maps for the GPS. Following the track on the GPS and on the paper maps simultaneously is good enough. I think that's what most runners did.
Equipment and clothing
Q. Did you use poles?
A. Yes! I couldn't even think to do it without poles. They drive power out of your arms both up and down hill and relieve (a bit) your quads and knees. They also help a lot with balance (or the lack of it). Leo and I realised 10km before the finish line that we couldn't even walk properly without them, as we had relied so much on them for the past 200+ km. I used a pair of Leki Makalu Tour, which might be a bit on the heavy side, but have been proven robust enough to handle me.
Q. Did you use a very powerful head torch? Did you use a hand torch as spare?
A. No, I used a Petzl Myo XP, which is good enough if your sight is not too bad. More powerful ones use a lot more batteries I think.
I carried, but did not use a Petzl Tikka as spare, as opposed to a hand torch. A hand torch is supposed to give you a better depth perception since the light comes from an different angle than your line of sight, making more visible shadows. However, I never understood how it can be used in combination with poles.
Q. Did you wear your waterproof jacket over the bag?
A. No, this would be a bit difficult, since my waterproof jacket is relatively snug fit, and the bag was not that lean. However, we used ponchos as an extra layer of protection. It makes a difference if you're in the rain for a long time, and the bag can easily fit underneath.
I hope this is useful. If you have any more questions, feel free to post them hereafter as comments.
Ultra PTL feedback
Comments
Please note there can be a bad connection problem on the Myobelt, mine got replaced for free after two years of use.